Dr Jake Kotevski didn’t become a palaeontologist because of a fossil. He became one because of Sam Neill. In this tribute episode, Travis and Alyssa talk with Jake about Alan Grant’s quiet, unglamorous masculinity, the “sense of wonder” the movie chose over the book’s horror, and why Grant’s evolution across three films (and an unfortunate franchise reboot) still resonates thirty years on.
Transcript:
Travis Holland (00:08)
Doctor Jake Kotevski welcome again to Fossils and Fiction. congratulations on the PhD
Alyssa Fjeld (00:14)
I think you mean welcome to Fossils
Jake Kotevski (00:17)
Thank you again for having me. It’s nice to be to have the opportunity to be called Doctor. I’ll take it.
Travis Holland (00:22)
well deserved from from what I hear. And we’ll have you back to talk about research at a later date. But I really wanted to take the opportunity in the wake of losing Sam Neill a couple of weeks ago, just to to chat about Sam and Alan Grant and Jurassic Park. you’re one of the you’re one of the biggest Jurassic Park fans I know, which is saying something because I know a lot of Jurassic Park fans all around the world.
Jake, what what does it mean to you?
Jake Kotevski (00:50)
Look, I mean, in the simplest of terms, it shaped my life.
My parents divorced young and it was like the comfort movie. I’ve watched it forever. I went through high school, I was bullied. One of the things was you like dinosaurs, how can you like dinosaurs? I still went back to Jurassic Park and I still went back to Sam Neill. as I was going through high school and deciding, okay, maybe paleo is not a viable career path, I switched to study genetics, the other science in Jurassic Park. And I did a complete undergrad in genetics, which I didn’t love in the end. And around twenty
seventeen or so, whatever. I read the book once a year. I watch the movie a million times. But I read the book once a year. I put down the book and I just searched the palaeontologist in Victoria. I found Jeff Stilwell at Monash University. Sorry. Associate Professor Jeff Stilwell at Monash University. Wrote to him he got me in with like a a program and I did a second undergrad at Monash and inevitably the honours and the PhD and here we are as Dr Jake. and it’s all because of Dr Grant. I mean that every single professional career path choice I’ve taken is
has something to do with Jurassic Park.
Travis Holland (01:50)
I’m kind of the same, right? You know, even though I ended up in a different academic field, I saw this guy who wears knowledge so well, who is a genuinely good person in his world. That’s Grant, but also Sam Neill is just such a good person in our world, who wears his expertise.
just really well, you know, and and and carries himself in the world in a way I think we could all aspire to. couple of years ago I did some study on space studies a totally different field altogether. And at the end I was asked to write a reflection and I kind of said, Well, I always wanted to be one of two things that was either a palaeontologist or an astronaut and obviously that’s the dream, but it that comes from Grant.
Alyssa Fjeld (02:34)
I think it’s really hard to watch Jurassic Park as somebody who loves palaeontology and not feel tremendously moved by some of the scenes. Like for me it’s always the scene they do move in herds. Like that one gets me every single freaking time. Because it’s like here’s this thing that you’re studying that involves so much creativity and imagination on your part to recreate.
And to have any of that information confirmed by a living animal would be I mean, I I’m sure Jake you could speak to this better than I could. Theropods are complicated animals that would have had, you know, interesting behaviors and you know.
Jake Kotevski (03:11)
Well, it’s like the foreshadowing. I mean, i he knows a lot about raptors for animals that have been dead for millions and millions of years, like the whole hunting pattern and all that. But it works in the movie, you know. He has these theories about what he thinks Velociraptor does and he has it valid it’s terrifying in the context of the movie. But it has it validated, he sees it in life and it’s just like, you know you can you can imagine yourself, like if I was there I’d be equally terrified, but if I got out of it it was like I was right. No.
We we knew this and and it feels good to be validated. I I’m pretty happy I’m alive, but it also feels pretty good to be validated.
Travis Holland (03:45)
There’s a there’s another a line in the film where Ian says the same thing, right? He says, Boy do I hate to be right all the time when he’s talking
Alyssa Fjeld (03:52)
Yeah.
Travis Holland (03:52)
about his theories his theories
Jake Kotevski (03:53)
Absolutely.
Travis Holland (03:54)
being validated.
Jake Kotevski (03:56)
And that’s and that’s the difference between them, I mean, they work very well because Grant’s like you’re he’s you. You’re just an everyday guy who happens to be a palaeontologist, thrust into this situation. Malcolm same, he’s a mathematician. I mean, he’s a bit more of a up himself, but it works.
Alyssa Fjeld (04:13)
they humanize him through the connection he has to children, not just as like a palaeontologist with facts that the kids care about, but as a human being. And I think that’s something that a lot of paleo media really and scientist media in general fails to do. Like normally we’re the bad guys if we’re anything and we’re not given that kind of depth. And he he plays it with such warmth, which is really, really nice to see.
Travis Holland (04:35)
Grant starts off as a person who doesn’t want kids, doesn’t want much to do with them. He scares the boy on the dig with the raptor talk. Ellie says if you wanted to scare the kid, you could just pull a gun on him, right? and then he he he’s really hesitant to get involved with Lex and Tim, but
the moment he needs to be a father figure for them to guide them through Jurassic Park, as John Hammond says, he he does it. He steps up. and by the end they fall asleep on his lap in the in the helicopter. he really he really moves into that role. Again, I I think in an aspirational way.
Jake Kotevski (05:13)
Definitely. And like I read one of the articles, one of the myriad articles about Jurassic Park and Sam Neill after his death. And one that stuck with me is like Dr. Grant is your first scientist on a screen who’s not so intelligent that he can’t function with other humans. Or he’s not a mad genius. Or he’s not like action hero Indiana Jones. Like he’s just your everyday guy.
who happens to do what he loves and you just you’re going through the motions with you you resonate more with that than say, you know, I guess look at if you look at Jurassic World Alan Grady, Chris Pratt’s character, it’s like he’s the action hero. He’s G. I Joe. He’s he’s it’s it’s you don’t r resonate with that as much. and I think it meant a lot to so many people.
Alyssa Fjeld (05:59)
Right. Or even looking
Jake Kotevski (05:59)
Right.
Alyssa Fjeld (06:00)
to some of the other characters that Neill plays. I mean y I I I think the other big movie that I remember from him was Event Horizon, where he plays this evil scientist man who’s just trapping people in space and is you know, it’s not Neil’s fault. I think he plays the character with as much warmth and depth as he can, really, but the script was not cutting him a lot of favors there. And it it is much more a two dimensional portrayal.
Travis Holland (06:23)
That said though, there’s this story that’s come out in the last couple of weeks. It’s it’s always been known for people who followed Event Horizon, but you know, he asked for the Australian flag to be altered to
Alyssa Fjeld (06:34)
Yes.
Travis Holland (06:35)
include the Indigenous flag, the Australian Aboriginal flag, in the corner rather than the Union Jack. And that was that was Sam, right? It was just putting his politics just in a quiet way, but in a in a way that foregrounds values
foregrounds change, foregrounds that perspective and just puts it out there, you know, in a in a sort of commanding but understated way. And I Sam did that in New Zealand with his campaigns against the mines in in the Otago region.
He saw himself as part of or or a caretaker of the landscape and didn’t want to see the mines come in and and impact it negatively. So yeah, he was It’s a rare case of somebody who
after their passing there’s just no one has anything bad to say. You know. No one at all has anything bad to say about Sam Neill.
Alyssa Fjeld (07:33)
there’s a lot of controversy around the Michael Crichton book, of course, now that Crichton has kind of been outed as like a anti-science climate change denial sort of person. but Jake, I know you know the book very well, and I’m wondering how much did Sam Neill’s portrayal of the character of Alan Grant change the character when he brought it to screen?
Jake Kotevski (07:56)
it’s one of those things where you can kind of separate him from his beliefs because y regardless of what he thought, you could see he put in the effort to understand the science. It’s in a lot of his books. Prey with all the nanotechnology, Congo with gorillas, Jurassic Park with dinosaurs, and genetic technology. Like he put in the effort to try and understand it and put it to page.
The movie I love it for what it is. I think I know there’s a lot of arguments people have with you should adapt the book. We’d have that horror element. The movie needed to be what it is because it’s that sense of wonder and joy and it’s it brought a lot of people in. If it was the horror movie it wouldn’t. Sam Neill as Doctor Grant, there’s that l small difference of in the book he already likes kids. In the movie he learns to like kids. But it’s still him. You can it’s it’s still the same, just the rugged guy who likes to work out in the field.
He likes to do field paleo. He loves this stuff. He loves dinosaurs. it’s the best portrayal you could get. Like I could not see anyone else playing Dr. Grant. And like I read the book and Crichton describes him as, you know, 40s, flannel shirt, big bushy beard. And I still just see Sam Neill when I’m reading the book. Like that’s that’s who I’m envisioning act like in that book. So it
It’s like Vigo Mortenson and Aragorn. You don’t see anyone else as that character.
Alyssa Fjeld (09:14)
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I feel like as well, I I think there’s like in the book, the character is almost too similar to the kind of palaeontologist that Crichton interviewed. Like, I I when I think of book Alan Grant, I’m thinking of Robert Backer with just the label kind of chiseled off. But I feel like Sam Neill kind of captures the essence of what a lot of men in the field that are good men are like. You know, I when I think about the the good palaeontologists like yourself, some of the other people in our lab, it’s like
that’s the kind of guy that I’m imagining. just like, you know, he loves what he does and he’s out there, he’s not doing anything offensive or crappy. He’s just here because he loves a dinosaur and he wants to do the best job he can.
Jake Kotevski (09:57)
Absolutely. I mean and I think that’s what draws so many people to it. I know it’s what drew me to it. It’s like i he’s i s it’s amazing how in a two hour movie you can evoke so much of a personality, of a fictional character. And it’s probably, you know, it’s Sam Neill coming through it. And it’s probably his values coming through, but it’s like that’s someone I could be and someone I aspire to be.
Travis Holland (10:19)
for me Jake and and maybe you you might agree with this as well absolutely Grant connected with so many people I mean we all know you know Adele who who I know sees Alan Grant as a kind of personal hero as well and loves to to cosplay as him while in the field Adele Pentland but I think
For for men, he he embodied this really kind of positive version of masculinity as well. You know, he was very masculine, but not in a domineering way, not in an aggressive way. Still in a very kind of caring way, and again in a way that foregrounded his care and concern for those around him. This is both Sam and Alan Grant, I guess, to me. And that’s something that I
You know, I grew up adoring everything he did because of that as well.
Jake Kotevski (11:15)
Yeah. And it’s like this is a man who cries when he sees a the first living dinosaur. As if you wouldn’t and and the fact that you’re masculine enough to be o overwhelmed by that emotion and emote like that. It’s such a positive thing. I mean you you put it perfectly. Like it’s it’s just it’s something that a lot of people needed and enjoyed seeing, and it’s definitely shaped them.
Alyssa Fjeld (11:39)
Yeah, I mean you don’t see him chasing after the dinosaurs shirtless with his like dehydrated Chris Pratt six pack, shooting at the animals. He takes the time to like educate the children. He’s, you know, I what’s the scene with the I’m gonna get the name of them wrong. The ones that are just running around and then the T Rex chases them over the log.
Jake Kotevski (11:58)
Ga gal
Galimimus.
Alyssa Fjeld (12:02)
Ha ha.
He just treats them like they’re they’re a creature that we should stop and admire. There’s never any sense he’s not Robert Muldoon, you know, Muldoon’s approach is painted a different way.
Jake Kotevski (12:13)
Yeah, definitely.
Travis Holland (12:14)
there was a real evolution of Grant across the franchise. Like Jurassic Park is one thing, but he does also pop up then in a couple of the later movies. You know, he’s in Jurassic Park three, and then he turns up in Dominion where he he it’s almost a different character in Dominion, but it’s someone who wants to go back to the back to his roots, back to digging in the rocks.
digging in the dirt for for fossils and promoting the real science. and at the start of Jurassic Park 3, he is talking about how the dinosaurs are monsters, that they were created as monsters. He he no longer sees them as animals. He’s not in awe of them like he was early on.
But then I think even through the course of that movie he probably comes to see their raw power again, you know, face to face with the Spino and others. What do you think about his evolution across the series, Jake?
Jake Kotevski (13:08)
Like, it really depends on the movie too. So Jurassic Park One, Two and Three sort of have this vibe of you know, that nineties, early two thousands adventure.
straw, you know, straw roof huts and and Jeep Explorers and such. And then I don’t know, Jurassic World takes a different shift to me. I don’t particularly love the Jurassic Worlds. I thought I enjoyed the first, but in the context of the rest of them, they just I don’t know. The best way I can put this is they feel corporate. You go from straw like thatch roof huts and safari lodges to grey concrete and grey concrete and these weird glass bowls that everyone drives around in.
I it just takes a completely different shift. And the biggest shift that I dislike is A, the hybrid stuff, because I don’t believe that people are bored of the dinosaur zoo when I still like the animal zoo. And I I’ve been going to the animal zoo for thirty years. But B, they switch and I think it starts in Jurassic Park three with Spinosaurus versus T Rex, but they switch from these are animals living and breathing in an ecosystem to who wins in a fight. And
That’s really what the movie is. Jurassic World is Indominus Rex wins all the fights until T Rex and Velociraptor win the fight. And then Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom is Indoraptor, loses the fight to Velociraptor. And they just feel like it just feels like Kaiju movies, but they’re small Kaiju. Whereas Jurassic Park 1, 2
Alyssa Fjeld (14:34)
Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (14:34)
and 3 had that Jurassic Park vibe. And I feel like Alan’s Gr Alan Grant’s character, the way he’s written, suits
the Jurassic Park vibe more than it does the Dominion vibe more. And it’s possibly that they brought Sam Neill, Laura Dern, and Jeff Goldblum back because it’s like the nostalgia bait. I it I fell for it. I loved it. I loved seeing them on the screen. I didn’t love the movie overall, but it was great to see Dr. Grant on screen again. It didn’t feel the same. And it’s probably because he has changed I mean evidently everyone’s gonna change over 30 years. But
It didn’t feel the same to me. Sam Neill did his best as he could. Like, I still see it. It’s Dr. Grant, but I don’t know. I just I kind of block the Jurassic World movies out. And I just I think of Jurassic Park 1, 2 and 3. That’s that’s that’s the series for me. but I mean, yeah. Jurassic Park 3 Grant is Jurassic Park 1 Grant. And he just he has a different perspective because he’s gone through a traumatic event and he’s been thrown back into it against his will.
as anyone would. Like I feel like he’s very reasonable in his different points of view and and what he thinks. And yeah, y you’re always gonna fall back on the real science.
Alyssa Fjeld (15:37)
Yeah, he’s like, I I still care about these animals, but they did give me PTSD, so no thank you to more of these animals.
Travis Holland (15:43)
There in Dominion there is a bit of he’s kind of out of place in that world now though, I think, you know. And that’s even though it’s just about coffee, not about dinosaurs, but he he’s kind of feels out of touch with the modern world, at that point. And I I still kind of love that about him, about the way he plays that character, that like
What what has the world become? What are we dealing with here? Because this is not this is not real life anymore.
Jake Kotevski (16:11)
Yeah, and I think that kinda draws back to the book as well. I mean
I forget the line, but Grant au already is feeling like an outsider because he’s the guy who wants to be in the field all the time. And he calls what is he call like teacup palaeontologists or something. Like the ones who just wanna sit in a lab and run data and don’t want to go actually get their hands dirty. I love every aspect of paleo. Like I love the field, I love the writing, I like sitting at a desk, I like running data like I wanna do everything. I assume that’s what Grant does. But yeah, he you can feel in the book he’s kinda struggling to keep up with modern paleo and Dominions
sort of reflects that because it wasn’t something in the original movie. So it like it suits. And i it is. It’s kinda like a man out of time.
Alyssa Fjeld (16:55)
So my question to both of you is as mega fans, what would you where would you have taken the franchise while Sam was still alive instead of where Jurassic World took it? I know we we’ve been talking for twenty minutes and we can’t talk for an hour, but I I would love to hear what you guys think would have actually been a good place to take it to. What what would you have Sam Neill doing?
Travis Holland (17:15)
I think you need to you don’t just wanna see the same thing again and again. But where Sam is best where Alan Grant is best is in using his knowledge to protect and guide. And that’s what we see, that’s what we really love in Jurassic Park one.
He does that to a lesser extent in Jurassic Park 3, I think, because there’s a lot of other factors there, but he still does it. But I think particularly when he’s interacting with the children characters, that’s when he’s best. You know, and even in Jurassic World, had it been him guiding Zach and Gray, is that their names, through through the park rather than
they they they were kind of making their own way with Owen in pursuit. I think that would have been a a different movie. And with the the most recent movie, Rebirth, I mean, could you imagine Alan Grant if he’d been with the Delgado family, guiding them down the the river on the on the T-Rex raft? And that’s a scene straight out of the Jurassic Park book, but I jeez.
It would have been something different with Grant there.
Jake Kotevski (18:25)
Yeah, definitely. I mean I in recent years I’ve realized that maybe it’s because that’s what most content seems to be nowadays. I’m sick of the same thing. Like I want an original idea. like to me I would prefer Jurassic Park One to three and then we leave it. And that’s done. That’s the franchise. Do spin do your video game spin offs. Do I know have you like in I think he was he voiced Dr. Grant in
Operation Genesis, the Park Builder, which I loved as a kid too. Pretty sure Sam Neill voice like he had little minor voice bits, but I’m pretty sure it was him. Do the little spin-offs like that if you need to have Alan Grant. But I don’t think we needed more. Jurassic World was fun and then it’s become this whole thing and it just keeps going and it’s I feel like that kid when Krusty’s beating up the guy stealing the Krusty burgers. Like just he’s is he’s already dead. Just stop. Just stop.
Travis Holland (19:11)
Stuff stop he’s already dead. Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (19:13)
Just stop.
And I’m sure there’s people who feel differently, but I d I’m happy with what there is with Jurassic Park one to three and I feel like we got enough of Dr. Grant and there’s not much more you can get. He went to the Dinosaur Island twice. You don’t need any more reasons to go to the dinosaur island. Stop going to the dinosaur island. Leave it be.
Alyssa Fjeld (19:30)
Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (19:31)
if so I had to choose
And maybe we wouldn’t have Sam Neill in it, but if you’re gonna do anything with Jurassic Park, adapt the book, adapt it as a TV series, give it the proper thriller horror treatment it deserves. That’s a completely different story though. that would
Alyssa Fjeld (19:48)
Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (19:48)
be that’s that’s just out of pure interest. Like I would I wouldn’t mind to see what they did, but preferably no more reboots, no more franchise just do something new, do a different dinosaur movie. Have Sam Neill in it, that’d be great.
Travis Holland (20:00)
I always thought there was there was room for a a weekly procedural centered around the ACU, the the animal containment unit in Jurassic World. Because that park was open for a long time before the movie happened.
I think we could have had some really cool scenes that don’t really impact much. They don’t need to necessarily attack guests or whatever, but you lose a worker here and there when such and such breaks out or you know you you get a Brachiosaurus stampede and the ACU deals with that in half an hour and then shuts down and resets and we come back next week. I think that would have been a really there’s nice scope there for for Jurassic World procedural drama, I think.
Alyssa Fjeld (20:41)
Yeah, like I I I guess when I’ve thought about like what you could do with it now, it’s like the thing that made Jurassic Park so cool was that it reflected this like major renaissance that was just beginning in palaeontology. It was, you know, Crichton asking questions about chaos, but it was also, you know, here’s all this amazing new stuff we’ve learned. And it’s not as if that renaissance ever really stopped.
Like Jake is a huge part of the ongoing dinosaur renaissance here in Australia. And I you know, I guess if I wanted more dinosaur things, I would want it to be like that. I don’t know what that would look like. I think it would just look like prehistoric planet. I think I just want more prehistoric planet.
Travis Holland (21:19)
We’ve got the
Jake Kotevski (21:19)
yeah.
Travis Holland (21:19)
end of Oak Street coming in a month or two, so that’ll be interesting.
Alyssa Fjeld (21:23)
yeah.
Jake Kotevski (21:25)
I’m I’m glad there’s new stuff coming. And yeah, I think I’ve shifted away from the sci fi what if they came back to life. Now maybe because I’m an actual palaeontologist now, but I wanna see the reconstructions. I wanna see the most up to date science. ‘Cause that’s what Jurassic Park was in the nineties, you know? That was the most up to date reconstruction of these animals. And then that followed on naturally to walk dinosaurs.
Alyssa Fjeld (21:46)
It was
it’s like the line between the fossils and fiction was so much blurrier. And now we do understand them. we do understand them as real animals, and that’s like so much cooler.
Jake Kotevski (21:57)
The natural world’s awesome and I wanna know more about the natural world. Sy fi’s fun. Sci fi can be its own thing. yeah. G Dinosaurs now for me is alright.
We have this awesome technology. We can reconstruct them the best way. We have so many paleo artists, so many palaeontologists, so many people actually caring about this stuff, who are inspired by Jurassic Park. Let’s give us let’s get a new interpretation. Let’s get this really new content. And yeah, things like prehistoric planet and walking with dinosaurs. I want more of that. And there’s probably only so much you can do, but do an Australian one. We haven’t seen Australian like walking with dinosaurs like anything on
an Australian dinosaur proper since walking with dinosaurs and that’s so out of date because we have learnt so much more. I’ll do it if someone gives me a money and teaches me how to direct and animate and reconstruct completely like give me all the training and then I’ll go do it. But it’s there’s scope. There’s things to be done.
Alyssa Fjeld (22:52)
And I’ll
make my own Jurassic Park.
Jake Kotevski (22:56)
Yeah.
Travis Holland (22:57)
yes, we’ve got a we’ve got a Hammond in training right here.
Alyssa Fjeld (23:01)
Well, and I
Jake Kotevski (23:02)
Yeah.
Alyssa Fjeld (23:02)
mean I think that’s the another really good point is like Colossal had all of these promises about recon like bringing things back. And I think it’s really worth pointing out that Sam Neill never, never once gave them money or press or attention, as far as I know. You know, this was the face of palaeontology for a generation saying, Yeah, but not like that. Not like those losers.
Jake Kotevski (23:25)
And
some of it is interesting, like the and this is pre colossal. Like people wanting to clone a mammoth. Where are you gonna put a mammoth? What are going to do with a mammoth? We make one because we can
Alyssa Fjeld (23:35)
Right.
Jake Kotevski (23:36)
make and then is it truly a mammoth? And and it brings up the same question as Jurassic Park. Are these dinosaurs or are they genetically engineered theme park monsters? We’re never gonna know because it’s dead.
And I always I I always put these like the two opening quotes from the book of Jurassic Park, there’s this really big one from Linnaeus about reptiles. But then there’s one from Edwin Erwin Chargaff or something. I don’t know how accurate the quote is, but you cannot recall a new form of life. We don’t know. They’re dead. They’re dead long before we showed up. So how do we know that this is an accurate representation of a living, breathing dinosaur? Or a mammoth, or whatever animal that’s gone extinct is being cloned. Maybe it’s different for things that we’ve experienced as humanity, but
I don’t know. It it I think we need to appreciate what was to appreciate what is now even more. And I’d love to see a dinosaur, but I’m not going to, and that’s okay. I to be fair, I can look out the window and see a dinosaur flying around in the sky and that’s good enough.
Travis Holland (24:35)
Sam Neill playing Grant, that’s a moment that he really shone right in Jurassic Park. Hammond is getting hammered from every direction about what he’s done and his decisions, and he kind of looks at Grant and expects Grant to be Yeah, no, it’s great. You’ve what you’ve done here is fantastic and and
Grant turns around and says, you know, dinosaurs and humans separated by sixty five million years, how could you possibly know what’s gonna happen? and that’s the heart of the book, right? Is is why would we do something like this when we we can’t we can’t know the outcome?
Jake Kotevski (25:15)
Absolutely.
Travis Holland (25:16)
but yeah, it’s a real moment for him to to shape the narrative and how it shakes out. Hey, before we started recording, Jake, you were talking about how once a year you sit down and watch Jurassic Park and your your lovely wife limits you to three quotes. What are your favorite three?
Jake Kotevski (25:33)
I d I mean the whole movie’s a favourite quote, but I I can never pass up we have a T Rex. and you’ve got to say it like how many of you We have a T Rex.
Travis Holland (25:42)
Yeah. I I I can I but let’s stick with
that one. That is one of my favorites. Like honestly, and it’s it’s a line that I say every time because Hammond says, you know, we’ve clocked the T-Rex at thirty-five miles an hour or whatever it is, and and and Grant says, What did you say? He says, We have a T-Rex. He’s so he’s so excited.
Jake Kotevski (26:04)
The delivery
is just perfect. Like you know he’s been hanging every moment since they got on the helicopter to say we have a T-Rex. Like that’s that’s all that’s running through his mind. so that I always pick the Raptor monologue in the Badlands because that is the longest one. That’s the most I can get in a row. That’s just one.
and then it really varies, you know, it depends on the mood. Sometimes it’s one big pile of shit, sometimes it’s Mr. Hammond after careful consideration have decided not to endorse your park, sometimes it’s I don’t know it it really depends. Some you know, hold on to your butts is always a personal favorite. they should all be destroyed. I mean, if I could pick, I’d pick the whole movie, but I I have to be really selective, but inevitably I always pick we have a T-Rex, and then it just goes on vibes from there.
Alyssa Fjeld (26:48)
so I was before I give you mine, I just wanted to say, like I I have personally experienced watching Jurassic Park with Jake, and it was a 10 out of 10 experience. I I can recommend it to any listeners if you have the opportunity. It was a great time. It was not obnoxious. I’m not this is a wholehearted endorsement. And I also want to point out that at Jake’s wedding, Jurassic Park also featured I have here the souvenir Victoria Bitter with his wife and himself photoshopped in cosplay.
the
Jake Kotevski (27:14)
Yeah.
Alyssa Fjeld (27:14)
the theme song was involved at one point. It was a beautiful ceremony.
Jake Kotevski (27:19)
Yeah, we were we were announced
as Mr. and Mrs. Kotevski and we had the the theme play and I it I I wanted to get I wanted to get dropped off in a in one of the Jeep Explorers. I wanted to find some guy who owned one and dropped me off and I was like, nah, that’s that’s kinda pushing it. I I tried to convince her to to turn the the wreath and the arch and all that into the gates.
But no, that that was that was aiming too high. And look, fair enough. I aimed high so I could get Well can we walk out to the theme? Yes. All right. Good. I’ll I’ll take the win. the d would have been if
Alyssa Fjeld (27:50)
You were a good husband. You let
her have a lot of Taylor swift.
Jake Kotevski (27:54)
well to be fair, I like Taylor Swift now. It it’s b marriage is balance, isn’t it? You you you give and you take.
Alyssa Fjeld (28:02)
Well Ang is a trooper. and I hope that she’s enjoyed this interview as well. my quotes would be obviously they do move in herds, that’s my favorite all-time line. I I love the clever girl, that’s always been a favorite. I guess if I had to pick a third one
Travis Holland (28:18)
Right before he gets his throat ripped out.
Alyssa Fjeld (28:20)
As as he kinda earned, he kind of, you know, maybe
Travis Holland (28:22)
Ha ha ha.
Alyssa Fjeld (28:24)
don’t hunt them.
Jake Kotevski (28:25)
Yeah.
Alyssa Fjeld (28:26)
gosh, and then one big no, must go faster. Must go faster is another favorite. That’s such a good one. But yeah, that’s me.
Jake Kotevski (28:33)
Actually
now you’ve reminded me too,
Travis Holland (28:33)
Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (28:34)
I’m always partial to when Ellie’s, when they’re getting chased by the T Rex and Allie’s just going, Shit! Shit
Alyssa Fjeld (28:40)
Ha ha ha.
Jake Kotevski (28:41)
So good. So good. I
Travis Holland (28:41)
Ha ha ha.
Jake Kotevski (28:42)
would totally do the same.
Alyssa Fjeld (28:44)
Hehehehehe.
Travis Holland (28:44)
I mean
who wouldn’t? Who wouldn’t, right? Who wouldn’t? I have to say, you know, one of the most impactful lines in the in the film for me is you know, people always talk about women inherit the earth, but I I like
the I like the later line from Ellie where she just says, you know, Hammond again is just being Hammond and he’s
Jake Kotevski (29:04)
It was
Travis Holland (29:05)
actually like, despite being this despite being this
jovial, friendly old guy. He’s he’s actually got this creepiness underneath underneath the character that comes from the book. Like it fully comes from the book character who who is a real creep. But he says to Ellie, you know, I really should be going because I’m a and he’s gonna say man and she just turns around and says, look, we can discuss sexism and survival situations when I get back.
and she just completely
Alyssa Fjeld (29:33)
Right.
Travis Holland (29:34)
shuts him down in that moment, you know, and for me that’s even more impactful than the earlier line about women inherit the earth because I because she just is like right on the money and shuts Hammond down when he is being a creep.
Jake Kotevski (29:45)
Yeah, it’s just it’s so
well done. Like every character in that movie is so well done. And it’s it’s you want the Ellie and the Alan. Like that’s the perfect duo that you want there. And they’re just the everyday people. And yeah, it’s a great thing. You don’t it doesn’t matter whether she’s male or female or anything else that she identifies as. Like she’s she’s the one stepping up. Who cares? That it’s a woman stepping up, someone stepping up. And that’s what I really like.
Alyssa Fjeld (30:11)
Yeah, I mean when it comes time to put
hands in that shit pile, she’s there. She’s ready to go. Like she’s gonna do it.
Jake Kotevski (30:18)
Yeah.
Travis Holland (30:19)
Right. There’s no way that, you know, it’s not just token by any means that she says those things. It’s it’s the character is is built from the ground up to be just entirely as capable as any of the any of the male characters. And that’s something we actually don’t see in action films a lot. But Jake, you you wanted to not talk about science fiction, but you know, science fiction does that really well.
Whereas action films don’t. i is is it p science fiction and horror films tend to have really strong female characters where other genres of film tend tend not to. So yeah, that’s that’s where Jurassic Park for me ha has some in common with science fiction.
Jake Kotevski (30:55)
Yeah. And I mean look, as a bloke, like that was less less impactful to me in general. Like it it’s still a good positive female role model, but it was less impactful to me on a whole. Whereas I can imagine for so many girls growing up watching it, how much it would have meant to see like she’s also the hero and she’s also stepping up. you know, it’s it’s like it’s just got so much impact and
The fact that yeah, you’re just seeing how many people are being brought together by an ac it it’s so weird to grieve an actor. But you’re seeing how many people are being brought together by it.
Travis Holland (31:28)
Yeah, well I think,
Alyssa Fjeld (31:28)
Definitely.
Travis Holland (31:28)
you know, Laura Laura Dern’s tributes to Sam and Jeff Goldblum’s tributes to Sam and Joe Mazzello’s tributes to Sam and Spielberg, everybody that worked with him as Alan Grant, were were were devastated and
Yeah, so was I.
Alyssa Fjeld (31:47)
And in much the same
way that, you know, they kind of mourned I mean, we haven’t mentioned some of the other like people that made Jurass we we are now mentioning some of the other people that made Jurassic Park what it was, but when Stan Winston passed, Dan Winton, the guy who did the special practical effects for not only Jurassic Park but so many movies in the nineties, you know? When he passed
Travis Holland (32:04)
The dinosaur supervisor.
Alyssa Fjeld (32:06)
Yeah, Dinosaur Supervisor, you know, he
Travis Holland (32:08)
Ha ha.
Alyssa Fjeld (32:09)
was a big part of the magic as well. And I I’ve looked back to see if there were cast tributes to him. And it does seem like, you know, and there wasn’t as much social media then, so we don’t really know, but it seems like he had that same beloved status. And I think it’s so rare that you see a full production team that just comes together and it’s wholesome. Nobody, I don’t know, turns out to secretly be awful.
It it’s just it’s such a rare thing to see. And for three movies as well, in in varying levels of quality.
Jake Kotevski (32:39)
And then beyond that, like
Travis Holland (32:39)
There is one
person who was awful, but we won’t we won’t mention him.
Alyssa Fjeld (32:44)
yeah, well what were you gonna say, Jake?
Jake Kotevski (32:47)
I was gonna say like and like it’s just been great seeing beyond the Jurassic franchise. Like there’s so much stuff I’ve watched Sam Neill in, like Peaky Blinders or the Twelve or just i there’s so much. I see him in anything and I’m like that’s d that’s Alan, that’s Dr. Grant. But just
Alyssa Fjeld (33:03)
Yeah.
Jake Kotevski (33:04)
like people he’s acted with in all of these other franchises just saying the same stuff. And it’s just so nice. Like it’s a terrible thing to have
all these people brought together, but just consistently, not a single bad thing has been said. Just just love and joy and sadness. Yeah. Joy that you spent time with him and sadness that he’s gone before you expected it.
Travis Holland (33:26)
although I’m someone who you know has a lot to do with film and television and is is kind of in fandoms in a lot of ways I’ve never really bothered about you know trying to meet actors or whatever but Sam’s Sam’s death he just felt like someone you know he felt like your uncle or your your dad like he just felt like this guy that you could sit down and have a chat with and
I dunno, I just always thought I’d r you know, run into Sam somewhere at like some event or something and yeah, he’s just you know, I never met him but I’m gonna miss him so much.
Alyssa Fjeld (34:01)
think you know, we could think about it in terms of extinction, you know, we have so many animals on our planet that are rapidly facing extinction crises. And as people who study the extinct, who study the dead, I feel a lot of reverence any time I get an opportunity to meet an animal that’s maybe not gonna be here forever. And I just feel that sense of like wonder and luck that I got to share that time and that space with something that was that cool. And I I don’t mean to compare Sam to like
a cool bug or a duck or something, but I think that he was a magnificent person from what we what we know about him and I think that it’s reasonable to like look back fondly that we did get to s share some time of our lives on this planet with him and that he was making these incredible movies while we were alive to enjoy them and while he was here.
Jake Kotevski (34:48)
look, I mean, unashamedly, I broke down. Like I
wholly did not expect for a celebrity death to affect me so much. And on reflection, it’s like, well, yeah, you know, he was it it’s like a dad or a or an uncle or something. Like I watch that movie so much. I watch that movie so many crap times and so many good times. I still watch it so frequently. I take every opportunity I can. I watch it once with my wife again because she needs to break up the movies. But I can wa I can sit down and watch it at any time. And it’s you know, it’s the same performance and you know exactly what’s gonna happen. You know exactly what he’s gonna say. You know exactly and
And
it’s still it’s like that it’s like a family member. And so it was just so s such a strange feeling to like openly grieve someone I never and probably never would have met. And now I’ll never get the opportunity to thank him for shaping the trajectory of my life. It’s it’s w it’s so odd, but you know, as time’s gone on and I’ve seen so many more so many more outpourings about it that makes sense.
A lot of people do what they do because of his character in that movie or that movie and all the characters in it.
Travis Holland (35:53)
if you’ve not if you’ve not read it, Sam’s memoir
Jake Kotevski (35:56)
Mm.
Travis Holland (35:57)
is fantastic as well. there’s a version of there out of it out there in audiobook where he is the narrator. He reads his own memoir and it’s fantastic. really heartfelt. He has some some great moments in it and
You hear a lot of his a lot of his great stories from all these films, the ones we’ve mentioned, Event Horizon and Jurassic Park and Peaky Blinders and Hunt for Red
Jake Kotevski (36:23)
Hunt for Red October
Travis Holland (36:24)
October and everything else that he ever filmed. Like yeah, he there’s some some really great moments. Jake,
I thanks. I just want to say thanks for for joining us. I know you’re you’re pretty flat out with lots of discoveries coming and we’ll get back to those at a later date. But appreciated your time to have a chat about Jurassic Park and Sam Neill.
Jake Kotevski (36:46)
No, look, I appreciate you guys asking me to jump on. I mean there’s to be asked to talk about Jurassic Park when there’s so many people who love that movie, it it means a lot. Yeah, it’s just been great to just to just talk about something that you know, we all a lot of us feel the same way. And it’s nice. It’s nice we’re all in the same wavelength and it’s nice to be among people who also strangely have grieved a celebrity for maybe the first and only time. so yeah, no, I appreciate a lot, guys. Thank you so much.
Alyssa Fjeld (37:13)
Thanks, Jake.
I think, you know, it’s really important that we we live by the values that Sam demonstrated and I think this is a tremendous amount of emotional vulnerability, and I think it’s really important and good for our younger listeners especially to see
how something like this emotionally impacts us, that we are people and that, you know, there are so many of us that are inspired just the same way that the young listeners to this podcast and others like it could be looking to Sam Neill in the future, even if he’s no longer with us. So I really appreciated getting to hear your thoughts.
Jake Kotevski (37:41)
Thanks again, guys.
