This is a transcript of Episode 8: Tom Jurassic Talks Dominion.
Travis Holland 0:06
Welcome to Fossils and Fiction, a podcast exploring cultural and scientific ideas about dinosaurs.
I’m Travis Holland and my guest in this episode is Tom Jurassic from the Jurassic Park Podcast and other places in the Jurassic fan community. Tom joins me for a review of Jurassic World Dominion and discussion of his experience of being a fan creator. This is a spoiler filled episode so look away if you’re still waiting to see the film to get you in the mood, here’s the Dominion trailer
John Hammond 0:56
I wanted to show them something that wasn’t and illusion. Something that was real. Something that they could do see and touch. Creation is an act of sheer will. Life will find a way.
Claire Dearing 1:38
We can’t keep her here forever.
Own Grady 1:41
If they find her whenever we’re going to see her again. We got to protect her. That’s our job.
Ellie Sattler 1:46
Humans and dinosaurs can’t coexist. We created an ecological disaster.
Alan Grant 2:01
Ellie Sattler
Ellie Sattler 2:03
Alan Grant.
Travis Holland 2:09
Let’s dive right in. Thoughts on dominion?
Tom Jurassic 2:12
Thoughts on Dominion. That is an interesting question. It’s, it’s a good film. It’s a fun film. I really enjoyed a lot of elements of it. I would say that it potentially has some pacing issues. And it doesn’t necessarily follow up on everything in a post Fallen Kingdom world that I was perhaps expecting it to touch on. But I enjoyed it for what it was, you know, there were a lot of fun sequences, some new dinosaurs some cool characters, so it was a fun ride. It just perhaps wasn’t my favorite Jurassic film, which I think is fair to say.
Travis Holland 2:53
Well, you know, nearly everyone says that of course. At Jurassic Park is their first yeah written nothing. Nothing’s gonna top that. I don’t think but look, I really enjoyed Dominion. I thought it was good. You write the there was some great new characters. I cannot wait to see what Ramsay Cole and Kayla get up to. And Soyona Santos even. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they get up to some good dinosaurs.
Tom Jurassic 3:21
Yeah.
Travis Holland 3:23
I think the first time for Jurassic film, it really drew on influences outside of other monster movies in a sense, you know, Jurassic’s always drawn on other dinosaur films and monster movies. But that sequence in Malta was like Bond over? Yeah. And almost the underground sequence. My wife commented, ‘this feels like Star Wars’. You know, going down into the Cantina in Mos Eisely. So that kind of thing was a little out of place. But it was an amazing sequence. I thought
Tom Jurassic 4:02
It was yeah, it was really interesting seeing them trying to do new things with it. And I think that it’s very interesting when you look at sort of the reception to the film, because for some people, those new things really landed. And then for other people like the comparison to Bond, for example, I saw one review, which was like this is a Jurassic film, not a Bond film. Why is this in here? And I’m like, Well, it all depends on how open you are to changing the format of the film, I guess. And I think people forget that Jurassic’s format traditionally, it has been very restricted, because it’s on an island, there’s only certain things you can do with that, and only so many places you can go. Whereas when you open that up more broadly, of course it’s going to change because there’s so many scenarios that you can never do beforehand.
Travis Holland 4:53
So, and of course the motorbike sequence was a nice follow on from that and, you know, rewatching Jurassic World recently, Owen had that amazing motorbike sequence, with the raptors there anyway. So it’s a sort of nice follow on to hit that same beat as well. For me, the thing that made that sequence feels so Bond like was almost not the chase itself, but finishing the chase, and then getting on a plane and flying somewhere else, like the thing that Bond does, is like a race through a city. And then he flies off somewhere else.
Tom Jurassic 5:25
I started globe trotting nature of it. And it’s interesting, because actually, it makes that comparison to No Time to Die, which is one of the scenes I always think of, is when both him and the new double oh seven arrived, and their water planes land at the same time. And then they’re like looking out across each other, I think, perfectly encapsulates what you’re saying, which is that it’s all about new locations, and going from one location to the next to the next and really expanding the story.
Travis Holland 5:53
The Island thing is interesting, because for me, there wasn’t enough in the world, right, you got the Malta sequence, you got the opening sequence with Claire. And of course, I’ve given people spoiler warning in the intro, so hopefully, you’re not listening. To me, you’ve got those sequences set in the world. But a lot of the other sort of, in the real world stuff comes via the small clips right at the end or the start. And so it’s interesting that you made that comment about the islands being a sort of restricting environment, because then you want to get away from the islands. But they set two thirds of it in a walled off sanctuary, that it might as well be an island.
Tom Jurassic 6:41
So I think, yeah, you’re geting into really one is my biggest gripe with this film, I would say, which is the fact that they had the opportunity to open this really widely and tell a really interesting story that would show lots of different encounters in the wild. And instead, for whatever reason, they chose to restrict themselves. Now I can, to some extent, I can understand why. Because when you’re writing, for dinosaurs in the wild, and this is something which I may actually be doing currently. And you’ll learn more about that soon. When you’re writing about different encounters, it takes up a lot of time. And I feel like it’s really structured more for a serialized television format than anything else. And so that I can see why they wouldn’t want to do that in the film, because it would maybe affect their pacing, you’d get bogged down with all of these different scenarios. But at the same time, you’re right, that by going back to a sacturary, you’re essentially saying, Oh, we’re now having these things happen in a place where there is no real consequence to them because it’s away from everything else. And I think the reason why Malta works so well, is because when they leave you instantly think okay, so there’s atrociraptors on the loose. There’s normal people that if they’re going to be affected by that, and you sort of lose that as the film goes on, I feel
Travis Holland 8:06
Yeah, no, that’s exactly right. And, you know, we did see the kind of random, there weren’t many dino deaths, right. But a couple of years that were there were randoms, the guy on the scooter in Malta, which is which has got to be one of the most iconic, Jurassic deaths. I think it’s the way he was snatched up by the Allosaurus. But yeah, that, you know, there were random people, they weren’t kind of they weren’t kind of the justified deaths. I’ve walked out thinking, then wasn’t that many deaths that I kind of added up. And I think in terms of volume, maybe we looked at about the same as Fallen Kingdom or even Jurassic Park, but nothing compared to Jurassic World.
Tom Jurassic 8:55
I was watching. Yeah, I was watching a really interesting review. I think it was Best in Slot’s. And that sort of said something I agree with a lot, actually, which is Jurassic Park works so well, because it isn’t scared to kill off characters that you get to know. So you get the death of Ray Arnold, you get the death of Muldoon, you get the death of Gennaro. And those are all people that you get to know throughout the story. And I feel like one of the biggest issues with Dominion, is you have this huge cast of characters who are essentially indestructible. And that means that for the most part, you’re watching this story, but you know that there’s not going to be any real consequence to it, they’re going to come out the other side.
Travis Holland 9:37
And there was a lot of there was a lot of conversation in the community about if any of them die, right. I think Brad Jost settled on, he kept saying he thought Malcolm would die or Claire. Yeah. And both of those you right, they, they just seem to be totally indestructible. The moment where Malcolm sort of waves the flare at the Giganotosaurus. It’s like how did you get out of that.
Tom Jurassic 10:01
I was sat there like, this is the moment where he dies. And then when he didn’t, I was like, Okay, we’re doing this then.
Travis Holland 10:08
And Claire with the Dilophosaurus. Like, she should have died, right? She should have died. And then Owen grabs the thing by the neck and says ‘get’
Tom Jurassic 10:20
This is a podcast that people can’t see me right now. But I have my head in my hands. I – that moment where he just chokes out the Dilophosaurus. I was like, why? And the fact that he didn’t just choke it out, it’s neck like broke in his hand. I was like, okay, that’s just really gruesome out of nowhere.
Travis Holland 10:40
It was so… that was weird. Like, shot if someone had shot it, you could you can understand that. But he grabbed it by the throat. What is going on?
Tom Jurassic 10:50
It was like Owen morphed into John Cena for a second. And that was it.
Travis Holland 10:55
And then his little ‘Go on. Get” and the others just take off.
Tom Jurassic 10:59
Yeah. I mean, basically all Nedry had to do was choke a Dilophosaurus out in the car, and he would have been fine.
Travis Holland 11:07
Why he was only dealing with one right. Claire had at least three of them around.
Tom Jurassic 11:12
A whole pack ofthem. Yeah.
Travis Holland 11:16
But yeah, and then you know, there was even that moment where Beta took a took a running leap at Grant and Owen shot it in the neck. And that line from Jurassic Park where Muldoon says ‘they’re lethal it nine months and I do mean lethal’. Yeah. That I was I was calculating how Beta was at that point.
Tom Jurassic 11:41
like, Oh, she’s eight and a half is fine, he’s safe.
Travis Holland 11:45
And she just gets tranquilised in mid air. Um, favourite bits?
Tom Jurassic 11:52
Favourite parts? Easily the Quetzocoaltus attack. That was awesome. I’ve loved that since the trailer. And it really stood out to here as well. I actually think what really started the show for me, it was a lot of the sort of buildup of BioSyn. And it’s weird because I feel like there wasn’t enough of it in the film. But what was there was really cool. And I really liked. I’ve seen the comparisons with Tim Apple. What is his name, it’s not Tim Apple. Yeah, Tim Cook. Yeah. I always say Tim Apple after that meme. But yeah, I’ve seen the comparisons with Tim Cook. And I think that that comparison for Dodgson is really accurate. And I just love the portrayal of his character. And I feel like he’s sort of mellowed a bit since we last saw him in Jurassic Park. So you get this character who isn’t able to do as aggressive things as we’ve read about in the novels. And so he just gets frustrated because he doesn’t have the ability to control it all. Go ahead.
Travis Holland 12:58
Dodgson was really interesting for me. I thought he was well portrayed. Because Okay, in the novels. Yeah, he’s he’s vicious. He throws off the throw Sarah Harding off the boat. He allows his scientists friends who are whose name escapes me to be eaten as well.
Tom Jurassic 13:17
Yeah, King isn’t it?
Travis Holland 13:19
King? No.
Tom Jurassic 13:22
Oh, no. The other one.
Travis Holland 13:23
Baselton?
Tom Jurassic 13:23
Yeah. Yes, yes, you’re right.
Travis Holland 13:26
Yeah. But he kind of what’s a kind of sacrifices him in order to get away, right. But by the time of Dominion, he’s a much older character. He’s a character who film audiences don’t know. But even aside from that, I thought that they portrayed him true to who he has become. Yeah. And actually, he was pretty vicious, right? Yeah, he didn’t push anyone off off a cliff into the gaping maw of a T rex. But he he stopped the Hyperloop in the caverns knowing there were Dimetrodons down there. He turned off the air defense system to have Kayla’s plane taken down in the first place. So he was pretty vicious.
Tom Jurassic 14:16
Yeah he’s, he’s not – So I think it’s interesting, actually, because perhaps our portrayal of Dodgson is him in the novels at least being vicious by his own hands. But in this he’s vicious by his actions instead, and you’re spot on is that he’s doing things that have that impact. Yeah, exactly. And I do think, though, way the whole BioSyn facility was portrayed was really cool. And I know again, there’s so many comparisons with Apple, but I think it just works really well. And I’m really excited for the Evolution 2 DLC actually, because we get to play with the sandbox.
Travis Holland 14:54
As soon as I get I was thinking today, is there a good model of that out there somewhere because I want Yeah, I want the thing in Lego. Oh my God, I want to try and build it and build it in Lego probably. Mini scale, not minifig scale. Yeah. Too big, but
Tom Jurassic 15:11
that will be huge.
Travis Holland 15:13
Because I mean it’s what at least? Well, it’s as tall as a as tall as the Giganotosaurus and the T Rex. Yeah, at least. So it’s it’s a pretty tall bill,
Tom Jurassic 15:24
it is a huge building
Travis Holland 15:25
and big enough to contain all those dinosaurs inside inside the circle. But I want to I want more details about that building as such. Yes. It’s probably the best building I think we’ve seen in Jurassic Park.
Tom Jurassic 15:41
Yes, I agree with that. I think yeah, is is cool. I really like actually how they had this the aesthetic for BioSyn and this is something I was talking to someone about the other day, because I feel like ingen is a little bit more rugged and militarized. So I always when I think of ingen, I think of that clip of the AMRAP on the beach, when Hoskins calls them in, and you get that like security side of them, which you see in a lot of their architecture. And then here BioSyn is very clean, very clinical. And I love it because obviously the color white in fiction you automatically attribute to purity. And here there anything but because they’re actually an evil organization, which is trying to do their pure thing of saving the dinosaurs, but it’s all ethically and morally bankrupt. And I find that whole contrast cool.
Travis Holland 16:32
Everything that BioSyn has is clean and sleek, right? Whereas you’re right, InGen has a totally different aesthetic, and particularly in the later movies. You know, that was the kind of island feel to the original Jurassic Park. But at the time you get into the into The Lost World and even when InGen rolls out in Jurassic World, they’re fully fully militarized industrial company. You know, and and they took – InGen took control of Masrani in Jurassic World as well. Yeah. So we talked about the favorite bits, what bits didn’t work for you. And you’ve touched on a couple of these already. But
Tom Jurassic 17:15
yeah. I tell you one thing, it really didn’t work actually. For me. It was the comedy character like cameos. So the moment with the barista, particularly, I know one of my friends really liked that. But for me, it kind of pulled me out of it for a moment. And I was like, am I’m watching a Jurassic film? It just, I felt like where I said, where I had problems with pacing. It was weird that we lost like, context for the story sometimes I feel in terms of cutting things away for pace, but then like that barista scene was allowed to play out, for example, where it didn’t feel balanced.
Travis Holland 17:56
Yeah. And that was the same that there was three. There were three things happening. There was a conversation up the top of the stairs where Ramsey was and Dodgson. There was Malcolm’s conversation with Ellie. And then Grant’s interaction with the barista, it was like three things going on at once. But you’re right it, it played way too long. It felt realistic to build up again BioSyn as this kind of tech company that gives coffee and of course the hipsters right even if they’re in
Tom Jurassic 18:32
the middle of nowhere. Yeah.
Travis Holland 18:33
rather than San Francisco but yeah, you’re absolutely right. What about the locusts?
Tom Jurassic 18:40
S it’s interesting for me, I actually and I may be about to say something very divisive, but I really love the concept of the locusts and controlling the crops because I think it is very Crichton-esque and it’s looking at how somebody is using genetic technology for their own benefit. And that fits so much with Dodgson’s character as a whole doesn’t it because what was his main focus in the books, it was stealing technology so BioSyn was the top company, and this is like the next evolution of that.
Travis Holland 19:19
And he had he had released some he had released a virus or something that was supposed to be a cure. Yes. On some farmers in Chile in in the book. Yeah, it was part of the reason he was working for BioSyn rather than a university because he had this kind of ruthless
Tom Jurassic 19:41
evil streak. Yeah, yeah.
Travis Holland 19:43
No, I agree. I think that fit really well with it. It’s just It strikes me as Crichton-esque. You’re right. It’s some. You follow other books that Crichton has written like the Andromeda Strain. And yeah, it absolutely plays into that kind of those questions about science and philosophy that kind of have always driven Jurassic Park it was it fit right into that world.
Tom Jurassic 20:17
I think it’s a really interesting modern study as well, because obviously, at the moment with the world we’re in currently, a lot of prices of everyday things are increasing, and there are problems with things like food. So it kind of tackles that ethical question of people profiteering off of something that should be a fundamental human rights as well. And then ties in really interestingly, to that idea of, I guess, dominance within the technological sphere as well, doesn’t it and how these companies are often morally repugnant, because they’re on a quest to be dominant. And in fact, quest, they may inevitably do things that are not necessarily the most ethical decisions, I think you can draw so many comparisons, which is where Jurassic Park really has this timeless value, is the fact that the story at its core is messing with something that we should never have messed with before we fully understood it. And I feel like Jurassic World Dominion builds on that core concept very well. So though a lot of the set pieces and individual sequences might not necessarily land with audience it is, I think, thematically at least it has that same longevity of appeal that makes Jurassic Park so successful as well, because it’s a story that will continue to resonate and be relevant.
Travis Holland 21:41
Yep. We’re exactly on the same page. Yeah, I really think that’s, that’s to me. I’m sure a lot of people are going to disagree with this. But to me, it actually strikes me as a better sequel to Jurassic Park, than Jurassic World. Right now, it obviously follows plotlines from from Fallen Kingdom, but thematically, it seems like it fits better after Jurassic Park, than Jurassic World to me,
Tom Jurassic 22:12
I can see that yeah, because it’s almost taking that technology and taking the next step with it, isn’t it whereas Jurassic World is taking that technology and rebuilding it and doing it again? This is like saying, Okay, what technology do we have? And how do we build with that further?
Travis Holland 22:28
I saw an interview with Colin Trevorrow. And he was asked, you know, Would someone reboot, reboot the series and start again? And he kind of said, well, good luck, because he does that. Having to redo Jurassic Park. And, you know, good luck. Good luck recreating what Spielberg did. I’d love to see a reboot, by the way, because there was so much that wasn’t used in the film that was in the book that was amazing. And I’d love to see that. But. But he did that, right. I mean, that’s what Jurassic World was, it was a reboot of the idea.
Tom Jurassic 23:03
Exactly.
Travis Holland 23:04
Build the park.
Tom Jurassic 23:05
So yeah, it was for all intents and purposes a reboot that just sort of had elements of the classic interwoven into it so it felt like more of a continuation than a restart. But it is essentially the same thing. And it’s just doing it in a more modern era where they can then build on that technology as well.
Travis Holland 23:27
This is probably heresy as well, but Malcolm felt a little hollow to me.
Tom Jurassic 23:32
Yeah, the amount of people I’ve seen her have said that it just felt like Jeff Goldblum playing Jeff Goldblum. And I do get that to some extent. I feel like there would have been, it’s just I don’t think Malcolm would ever take a job with BioSyn in because he is a chaotician it just doesn’t really make sense to me.
Travis Holland 23:53
And he made that, you know, he made the point. He said something about I’ve got a lot of mouths to feed or whatever. Fine. But like, Really, though, is this what you would be doing?
Tom Jurassic 24:05
Clearly the book didn’t do that well right?
Travis Holland 24:09
the book. Yeah, no, that’s that’s exactly what he but he just felt like he was just repeating the lines for just because that’s what he says it just didn’t offer any insight on this occasion.
Tom Jurassic 24:24
I will say and this is maybe jumping the script a little bit here, but he did have the best line, I think ever which was ‘it’s always darkest just before a eternal nothingness’. That line in his delivery cracks me up every time and Sam Neill just being like, what the hell you saying?
Travis Holland 24:42
What does that even mean? Yeah. I love that little. Immediately after that same way Malcolm was giving the talk. I love the little cameo from Emily Carmichael the writer. It was just like, oh there she is suddenly right in the middle of the group.
Okay, which of the new characters do you want to see in the future? We talked about a couple of the new characters, but who could really take the franchise forward or in different directions?
Tom Jurassic 25:14
So I think Ramsay and Kayla have some good potential, like you say, I almost feel like Ramzi could be the catalyst for a spin off TV series that’s trying to re contain the dinosaurs again. I think that could be quite interesting. I think Soyona like you say, there’s definitely potential to explore more with her there.
Travis Holland 25:38
She had connections Riyadh, and yeah, and Germany in places that that we’ve never seen in Jurassic, so
Tom Jurassic 25:47
yeah, so there’s, there’s a lot of groundwork being laid there, which is really interesting. And then it also, again, hints at the global scale of the dinosaur problem as well. And even if it’s telling us rather than showing us, but I think the, the person I really want to see more of, and I have a feeling we’re going to get this with Camp Cretaceous Season Five, is Louis Dodson. I think seeing how BioSyn has developed since 1993. To get to the point where it is now would be really cool. Because obviously, we see the Barbasol can And it’s just there. We don’t know how it got there.
Travis Holland 26:28
The Barbasol can was something that the community built up has been this huge thing. Right? So it’s just there on a shelf for 30 seconds.
Tom Jurassic 26:38
I’ve got to confess something to you. So I learned ages ago, that the guy who has the cameo in the CIA office who looks a lot like Dennis Nedry, I learned about a year ago that he was going to be in the film. And obviously there was that comment from ILM about the Barbasol can going to set as well. So I was like, oh my god they’re doing in 1993 flashback. You have no idea how disappointed I was when I’ve been speculating for a whole year to realize that that guy was just in the film for a cameo.
Travis Holland 27:12
It Yeah.
Tom Jurassic 27:17
You really got me good.
Travis Holland 27:19
Is that all they did with the Barbasol can? Yeah. Although interesting, it’s now being lost again at the hands of a Dilophosaur, or the clasw of a Dilosphosaur.
Tom Jurassic 27:28
I liked that I liked that parallel at the end as well. I thought that was quite cool. How Dodgson essentially dies in the way that Nedry does.
Travis Holland 27:37
Yeah, I thought he was going to die. When they stopped the when they stopped the Hyperloop I thought he was gonna get by the Demetrodon’s.
Tom Jurassic 27:44
It would have been so cool.
Travis Holland 27:46
And it would have been amazing. But it had to be the Dilophosaur. Like why is this thing even in the cavern? But it doesn’t matter.
Tom Jurassic 27:55
I thought that was genuinely and this is something else that I really liked with this film actually is there’s moments where Trevorrow really experiments with horror in a way that I don’t feel like Jurassic has done for a long time. And like that sequence where you have the blue low light, and with the Dilophosaurus just felt so tense. And I was like, I want a whole film that’s like this.
Travis Holland 28:18
They are actually the most menacing dinosaurs in the film. Yeah, right with with with Claire. And then that sequence. Yeah. The to me it was disappointing that the Quetz was only on scene for as much as we saw in the trailer like that was it? Yeah, we didn’t see any more of it. Not a second more than was in the trailer.
Tom Jurassic 28:40
And same with the pyroraptor as well really, because obviously, you get the extended sequence of it going up onto the dam and chasing them, but that was really it. And, and I will say some of those moments felt a little bit jarring like that Pyroraptor literally appears out of nowhere.
Travis Holland 28:57
Yeah, you saw it come down sort of off a cliff face. But it’s like why is it up there. Because like the dinosaurs shouldn’t have access to that space. Right? Yeah. It’s not area they were allowed to go.
Tom Jurassic 29:09
Yeah, it’s just chilling up there
Travis Holland 29:13
and runs towards a plane crash.
Tom Jurassic 29:19
It’s a braver thing than I am that much is for sure.
Travis Holland 29:25
Um, anything else you want to say about Dominion for this for this podcast? I’m sure you’ve got other appearances and other material you’re going to get a chance to talk it out.
Tom Jurassic 29:36
I would just encourage people. If you’ve not seen it at the time of listening to this, please do go and see it. Because I think a lot of the critics reviews for whatever reason have been really, really brutal towards this film. And I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as they make out. I think that there’s definitely things that I thought didn’t land as well as we’ve spoken about throughout this podcast, but also, there’s a lot to really enjoy with this. And I think if you’re a fan of the Jurassic franchise, then you’re doing yourself a disservice by not experiencing it. So just get out there, watch it, form your own opinion, and then come back and share that with other people and have discussions about it. Because that’s what it’s all about is working out what we enjoy what we don’t enjoy and forming those opinions and having discussions around them.
Travis Holland 30:23
Fully agree, Tom. And to change pace I wanted to also while I’ve got you on the line, have a chat about your journey as a sort of Jurassic fan creator.
Tom Jurassic 30:33
Sure, yeah. So I think I started back in 2018, which was crazy. So I was actually really into Halo for a while. And I’ve been doing content creation on on, on and off since I was about 15 years old. So it’s been quiet for quite a long time. And I was doing a lot of stuff for the Halo community for a while. And then I kind of fell out of love with it. And it was at this weird time where Primeval as a TV show had just finished. And I wanted to find something else dinosaur related. So I watched the first three Jurassic Park films. And it just so happened that right as I got into the franchise, Jurassic World was coming out. So I got to see that as well. And I was then like, okay, let’s, let’s see who else is out there, what’s going on in the community. And I kind of slowly started dipping my toe in the water with that. And then really around the release of Fallen Kingdom, I was sort of a fully fledged member of the Jurassic Park Podcast, started doing some guest reviews on Jurassic Collectibles as well, and have really just built out from there and just enjoyed sharing in conversations around the franchise, sharing toy photography, playing the video games, all of that kind of stuff. And it’s just been really a process of finding a lot of like minded people who I can share that with and actually getting a lot of energy back off of the people I share that with as well.
Travis Holland 32:08
This is probably an impolite question, but you said that you sat down and watch the first the first three Jurassic films. Were you alive when they came out?
Tom Jurassic 32:22
So I’m gonna blow your mind right now. Travis. I am 23 years old.
Travis Holland 32:28
I was gonna say… hmm, he’s a bit younger than me.
Tom Jurassic 32:32
I was alive when Jurassic Park 3 came out just about but apart from that. I think I was two years old when JP3 came out.
I was going to say for me actually a really interesting part of what got me into Jurassic was when I was at college, studying creative media, the in-universe Isla Nublar website was out. And that thing was just everything to me, like, I really loved this idea of immersive marketing that actually makes this fictional location feel like a real place. And the fact that you had the B roll footage of the cameras, all of the dinosaur profiles, that sort of really got me interested in creative comms work and marketing as a whole. And I think that really helped to inform my connection to the fandom as well, because I love that so much that I wanted to find more of that. And I think that that that says a lot about even this newest generation of Jurassic is obviously for a lot of people that original Jurassic Park film was the catalyst for going into the careers and they’re doing that or, but for me, actually, I think a big reason why I’m doing marketing now can be attributed to Jurassic World. So it’s interesting seeing those parallels there.
Travis Holland 33:54
I really like that. I was I was about seven when the Jurassic Park came out. And I don’t think I saw that one at the cinema immediately. Maybe Maybe I did. I certainly recall seeing the Lost World at the cinema. Yeah, and you know, those T rexes were incredible at that point to see those things on screen. You know, that was, that was amazing. But I but my dad had me watching Alien from when I was like seven or eight. Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if I was watching Jurassic Park at that age either. I really like the way the community brings in people from kind of both generations, you know, and they left the tag generations on one of those events, but it’s a nice way to think about it.
Tom Jurassic 34:51
It is I have to admit as well. I love how welcoming the community is to new people as well like the Jurassic Park Podcast for example, I remember I just emailed Brad one day and was like, ‘Hey, I’ve got this segment on X, Y’ and said, ‘Can I air it’? And he was like, ‘Yeah, go for it’. And that’s then now grown into its own thing where I get to do stuff with Frontier and other people, all from him just being open to going yeah, you know what, go for it. Just send me a segment and we’ll air it and I think that’s, that’s really unique in this fandom is there’s not as much factionalism as I think there are another online fandoms, where people aren’t so precious about their own content.
Travis Holland 35:34
It certainly is welcoming. I have to say, even though I’ve been a lifelong fan of the franchise, I’ve really only been active in the fandom for a couple of years. But I found exactly that everyone wants to talk. We all just love the films, and we love dinosaurs, and we just want to talk about them all day. If you can’t find enough people in your household or in your workplace or whatever,
Tom Jurassic 35:57
There’s only so many so many times my parents would listen to me talk about a T Rex.
Travis Holland 36:03
Yeah, look, absolutely. Absolutely. You mentioned Frontier and and I know you’ve done a bit of work with them and without sort of, you know, not to criticize them or Universal or anyone else. But what do you feel that fans and creators need from from the rights holders? What do you what do? What do we need, as fan creators to help us embrace the franchise as best we can?
Tom Jurassic 36:29
I think it boils down to a willingness to listen and engage. And actually, and this is something that I can say Fontier are really good at is looking past sort of numbers and things and impressions, and all of that marketing data can really hold you up, actually thinking about meaningful engagement and thinking about how you can really have a positive impact within that space so that people want to work with you. And I think we’re really lucky that actually a lot of the license holders in the franchise, people like Fanatic, for example, really are big fans, and they want to engage with the fans. So it’s just continuing to do that, really and continuing to build that out. And especially, you know, on the Universal front, they’ve been a lot more open to doing fan events more recently. So I think it’s just more of that more of listening to what the fans want, and actually building a community around this brand. So even when there is, say a lull in the content that’s out there after Dominion, for example. They’re still a place where people can go and hang out, and they’re still sort of that evergreen longevity for the brand as well. It’s not just going from film to film, it’s a lot more longer term.
Travis Holland 37:46
Yeah, absolutely. Before I go back to the questions that I kind of flagged with you, we were talking about the Barbasol can and you mentioned Camp Cretaceous. Yes. I’m excited to see now though, I’m more excited for Camp Cretaceous, because we all know what’s what’s coming in that there’s been a preview there showing the Barbasol can in Camp Cretaceous. So we assume that that’s the place that it’s actually going to come back into the story.
Tom Jurassic 38:13
I’m just gonna say isn’t it rather interesting, that part of Mantah Corp island looks very similar to some of the BioSyn facilities. And I would also say, if you look very closely at the trailer, you can pause it and there is a man with glasses and gray hair. So I a lot of people have said to me that that’s just Kenji’s dad. And it’s a weird angle. But I’m not convinced I have a feeling that Mantah Corp and BioSyn are more intrinsically connected than many people realize.
Travis Holland 38:52
The major problem – people complain about the robots in that season. The major problem that I actually have with that is them saying that the island they’re on is not one of the five deaths, which were, you know, the five deaths were canonically established in The Lost World and then played a role in in Jurassic World Evolution first. Yeah. And so you’ve got five islands, plus Nublar, six islands that potentially have dinosaurs on them, and then Mantah Corp went somewhere else.
Tom Jurassic 39:27
Yeah, it’s interesting when you look at the geography as well, because I can’t remember where it’s from, but I’m sure someone said that their island that they’re on is really close to Nublar. So it’s like there’s Nublar and then another island before Costa Rica as well. And it’s like, well, okay, I will say though, if you look at a world map, there are a couple of islands off of the coast of Costa Rica. So who knows, right?
Travis Holland 39:54
Crichton, ah. And yeah, but you know, it’s like, finding where Kong Skull Island is.
Tom Jurassic 40:04
Don’t you mean Site C Travis? Site C?
Travis Holland 40:08
Look, if if it turns out that the whole thing is being is being run by Monarch, and if that ties in somehow, I don’t know
Tom Jurassic 40:20
I feel like my brain would explain
Travis Holland 40:23
Wild speculation but there’s six islands with dinosaurs, at least. Seven if you can’t if you count Skull Island. Tom, thank you so much for the conversation. Anything else you want to add at this point? I’ve covered a lot of ground.
Tom Jurassic 40:39
Yeah, I feel like we’re all good. I’ve really enjoyed doing this. So thank you so much for having me on today. This has been a lot of fun.
Travis Holland 40:47
No problem. Where can people find you and follow you work online?
Tom Jurassic 40:51
If this conversation hasn’t put you off? Follow me online with all of my conjecture then. Feel free to come? Find me at Tom underscore Jurassic. And also check out the Jurassic Park Podcast Collect Jurassic and Jurassic Collectibles.
Travis Holland 41:08
Thanks so much, Tom. Really appreciate it.
Thanks to Tom Jurassic for that wonderful conversation. If you’d like to be part of a future episode of Fossils and Fiction, you can send us a link via social media to a voice file or send a voice message via our Anchor profile.
Thank you for listening to the Fossils and Fiction podcast produced by me, Travis Holland, with the support of Charles Sturt University. The podcast theme music is Sonora by Quincas Moreia via the YouTube Audio Library. Find more content on our social media channels, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and Tiktok. Shownotes are available on the website fossilsfiction.co You can subscribe to the podcast on all major podcasting platforms.
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